Emotional Intelligence in Leadership + Resiliency with Nicole Oke (part 2)

Discover how the enchanting world of emotional intelligence can transform lives in both personal and professional landscapes with our special guest, Nicole Oke. As the author of "Penny Panda and the Emotion Ninjas," Nicole shares heartwarming anecdotes, like her young daughter's journey into emotional accountability, illustrating the profound influence of parental modeling. Together, we explore the post-pandemic urgency of emotional intelligence in leadership roles and how acknowledging our flaws fosters genuine human connections. Nicole's own experiences as a mother sparked a path of emotional self-discovery, culminating in the creation of a children's book that champions the essential values of empathy, equality, and possibility.

Join us as we navigate the complex terrains of workplace harassment and gender discrimination, uncovering how self-improvement and advocacy can be catalysts for personal growth and societal change. By embracing the lessons of adversity, Nicole not only became a role model for future generations but also infused her creative projects with the spirit of resilience and empowerment. Our conversation extends to the unexpected tools for emotional learning found in Disney movies, where beloved characters teach us about uncertainty and courage. Nicole also teases forthcoming projects and the exciting potential of adapting her work for adults, promising to expand the reach of her emotional intelligence insights.

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Chapters

• 0:06 Reignite Resilience With Nicole Oak
• 6:21 Empowering Growth Through Self-Reflection
• 19:01 Unlocking Emotional Intelligence Through Disney

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:06

All of us reach a point in time where we are depleted and need to somehow find a way to reignite the fire within. But how do we spark that flame? Welcome to Reignite Resilience, where we will venture into the heart of the human spirit. Resilience where we will venture into the heart of the human spirit. We'll discuss the art of reigniting our passion and strategies to stoke our enthusiasm. And now here are your hosts, natalie Davis and Pamela Cass.

Natalie Davis: 0:41

Welcome back to part two of our two part interview with Nicole Oak, a mother and author of Penny Panda and the Emotion Ninjas. Let's dive back in where Nicole will continue to share with us some of the ninja mindfulness exercises that she has incorporated into her books so that young adults, children and adults alike all have an opportunity to have better emotional regulation and increase self-awareness. We hope you enjoy.

Nicole Oke: 1:10

And the kids are definitely watching and they're paying attention too. And that's one thing I like to share with parents too is, especially with books like this not just my books, but any of these kind of bigger topic books you may feel like you're reading them and reading them and reading them, and it's not sinking through. Or you may start practicing the skills and it's not sinking through. But eventually you'll have a moment where it's like they are paying attention, they are listening. We try really hard when we have moments of dysregulation, like you know, we're human.

Nicole Oke: 1:42

My husband and I sometimes we yell, even though we don't want to. We always come back after the fact and we sit down with our girls, get down at their level. We say you know, I'm sorry, I yelled at you. I shouldn't have responded that way. It wasn't appropriate, has nothing to do with how much I love you.

Nicole Oke: 1:56

You know, we do the bonding and the reconnecting and we never even really did it to teach them anything. We really were doing it just to reconnect and make sure that our bond was still strong. And then we had a moment where my three year old yelled at me. I don't remember why she I mean she's three, it could have been anything and she went back to her room and I went back to doing whatever I was doing and about five minutes later she came back out. She was like mommy, I'm sorry, I yelled at you, I was mad and I shouldn't have yelled, I'm sorry, and it was just like this. You know one of those moments where it's like she is paying attention, it is thinking and she is getting it, and even at three it was awesome, yeah.

pamela cass: 2:38

Incredible.

Natalie Davis: 2:38

That's so beautiful and to think that a three-year-old understands the importance of that continued bond, the relationship, really showing up and taking accountability for actions, behavior, reaction, whatever it was, and apparently she took the time in her room to process through the emotions that she was feeling as well.

pamela cass: 2:57

That's a lot. That is a lot. I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall in her room as she was like processing through what had just happened. Yeah, that would have been so good.

Natalie Davis: 3:07

I'd also love to put her in front of some business owners so that they can take lessons from the three-year-old right.

pamela cass: 3:13

Yes, I could see you even doing a emotional intelligence adult children's book for owners like managers, leaders, I mean, talk about emotional intelligence and I think that's a huge topic, as we're going into a place where people are leading Gen Z and millennials. I think that emotional intelligence is going to be a very hot topic over the next few years, especially coming off of the pandemic too, where everybody was isolated from each other and so a lot of emotions that are out there. So, yeah, you're going to have just this whole series of books.

Natalie Davis: 3:52

I love it. Cannot wait for them Every generation. Exactly Well and.

Natalie Davis: 3:57

I think if you bring that back to connecting with kids, especially kids that are going through school, like school-aged children, you have, like you know, their emotional intelligence and them really figuring out and navigating everything with their peers, and then when they get to a certain age, it's then like understanding. Oh wait, I've got to engage with adults as well, when they're connecting with their teachers. And, Nicole, you shared the story of well, you know, why didn't that person say hello to me? That's very quickly what students do. It's like well, my teacher didn't say hi to me, so I am probably going to fail this class, right, and they immediately go into that space. But then they progress fast forward to adults where they're leaders or team leaders or CEOs of companies, and again you have that multi-line of relationships that develops and if you're not aware or intentional, you could misinterpret a lot of interactions or comments or emojis for the wrong thing, Right.

Nicole Oke: 4:54

Yeah, and that coming back and reconnecting and being human and being okay with making a mistake too. It's like that I feel like is missing in so much leadership right now is being able to say I made a mistake and that's okay we all make mistakes and then reconnecting and fixing our mistakes, because it doesn't feel like that happens. It's like I'm going to fight till the end and say I'm right, Even if I know I'm wrong.

pamela cass: 5:19

Yeah, yeah, we see that a lot.

Natalie Davis: 5:22

Unnecessary desire for perfection, or at least the perception of perfection, which that's detrimental to everyone. Wow, yes.

pamela cass: 5:31

Yeah, incredible. So would you share with us? At the very beginning you talked about, you were going through a period of time in your career where you're kind of not in control of your emotions, where you're kind of not in control of your emotions. Would you mind sharing that story with our listeners so that they can kind of understand, like, what was it that you went through that caused you to then decide to write a children's book?

Nicole Oke: 5:55

Yeah, so there, there were a few things happening at that period of time. So it probably all started about eight years ago, the bulk of it when I'd had my first daughter. And so I, as you mentioned in my intro, I work in wildland fire, which is a very male dominated field, and there was a lot going on, not just where I worked, but in the field in general. Of you know, some harassment issues were coming up. I was dealing with being a woman among all of these men and having different standards. I was getting passed up for promotions, not due to skills related to the job, but because of, like, the hierarchy that they had gone in operations if that makes sense, so like it was a job that had nothing to do with that, but because they'd worked their way up on this side and I became very bitter and you know it got to the point where we had to get some lawyers involved and I didn't like who I was becoming, and so I decided like, okay, well, you have two choices. You can let this control you and dictate what happens to you for the rest of your life, or you can start working on yourself and figuring out how you're going to change and what you're going to do differently.

Nicole Oke: 7:21

And through that a lot of things kind of came. I started studying the emotional intelligence stuff for myself. I started seeing a lot of different things differently. So, like I remember, I went to this women in leadership conference around the same time here in boise and one of the speakers was talking about the wage gap between men and women. And I I'm a federal employee and so we don't have a technical wage gap, right, they're not. Legally, they can't pay men and women differently because we're on a GS scale or a graded scale.

Nicole Oke: 7:53

And yet I started remembering how I was treated when I would do like saw training and cutting. You know, here I was trying to become a sawyer, cutting down the trees, doing really good work, and then coming back and being told, well, you're never going to run a Saw because you're a woman. But then the hiring practices to get hired into that next level, you have to be a Sawyer, you have to run a Saw. And so it was kind of these pieces that I was picking up all over and putting together.

Nicole Oke: 8:21

And then the reason I keep bringing up that my first daughter was born was because it was kind of like a light bulb moment I was like, okay, I've let all of this roll off my back, I've done all the things that they say I need to do. I've, I've manned up, I've gone forward, I've ignored it. And then I would look at her and I would think but what do I want for you? And I was like I don't. If you want to be a firefighter someday, I don't want you to have to live through this, and the only way you're not going to live through it is if I do something now to try to change it. So I started speaking up, I started doing a lot of work with in the areas of harassment and some other areas, and all of that kind of led in together and made this big ball of stuff. If that makes sense, yeah, it absolutely does.

pamela cass: 9:12

Well, and it's so incredible because you know, most people would be in a situation like that and they would not say let me work on myself. Typically, we go to somebody else's fault, they're going to pay for this, and so I love that you did the deep work and focus on yourself first, and then you also did the other stuff, so I just think what a great role model for your kids. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, incredible.

Natalie Davis: 9:38

Nicole, I think the other piece of that like coming to the chapter in season in life where you start to write the book having a young child I mean that's a mom of a little one being able to carve out the time and, just, I think, the mental capacity to put your thoughts together to create a book what was was that experience like? Because I can only imagine that the starting point for it and really that desire to create something different for your daughter is one thing, but then going down this path of becoming an author and really shaping the narrative for hundreds of thousands, potentially millions of lives in the future, that's huge and that's different. I think that's a different weight that you're carrying. What was that like for you?

Nicole Oke: 11:17

It has been a very interesting ride and journey. So, like you said, I had decided I wanted to write this book for my kids and I knew that I wanted to. If I was going to write it like I wanted it to be good and I wanted it to look professional. And then I thought, well, if I'm going to put all this time and energy and, realistically, all this money to get an illustrator and an editor and a formatter and all that into it, then I'm going to publish it and see how many kids I can help with it.

Nicole Oke: 11:46

And the way that some of the ideas came to me have been so random and weird. I remember I was doing some sort of meditation and I wasn't even thinking about the children's book. I knew like in the back of my head, I knew that I wanted to do some sort of an animal probably a stuffed animal to talk to Izzy, but I hadn't decided what and for whatever reason during this meditation and it just kind of like a penny for your thoughts and I was like penny, her name should be penny and I was like I love it. And then I can't remember the term. I need to look it up, but I like it when sounds go together. So I was like okay, it's got to be like another p. So, penny I went through like penny poodle. I was like I don't like that, I don't. And I think I even had like penny possum. I was like poss, don't like that, I don't, I don't like. And I think I even had like penny possum. I was like possums are kind of weird and scary, and so that's kind of how we got to. Panda was because I like I was like okay, it's still kind of like your squishy teddy bear, because it's like the bear format, but it's a panda. And so that's how penny Panda was born.

Nicole Oke: 12:52

And then the idea for the book the first book kind of, came. I knew I wanted to talk about possibilities. I knew I wanted to dive into being able to see the different possibilities, and at this time my second child had been born, my second daughter. So I was starting to see some of that sibling rivalry not rivalry, that's probably not the right way to put it Jealousy. And more than one time my daughter would be like well, you can't spend time with me because you're spending it with Maddie, so you've got to love Maddie more. So I heard this a couple of times. And so I was like, okay, I know I want to do something about possibilities, I want to do something about mom and dad and love, and so I can't remember exactly how it all came together. But I was like, okay, christmas Penny will be the gift, and part of the gift is this gift of possibility, because it really is a gift when we can learn to think about things differently and look for all these possibilities. So that's how the story kind of came to be.

Nicole Oke: 13:54

And then I wrote it and, as any probably first time writer does, I thought this is awesome and perfect, don't need any feedback, don't need anything. And so I hired an editor. She provided some feedback, which was a little brutal for someone who thought it was perfect. So went through that humbling process and worked with her and I've I've learned so much.

Nicole Oke: 14:20

So the first editor I used, she was great, but she didn't specialize in children's books, and so the first book is 1200 words, which is really long I came to learn for a children's book. So like the second book is right, around 600 words. And so there were things like that that I've kind of learned between the two books, like, okay, get an editor who specializes in children's books Get a lot more feedback and critique ahead of time, and the more of that you get, the easier it becomes to take. So I encourage everyone to get feedback and critique from the beginning. That process and that journey has been really interesting and I have learned so much. I've definitely gone from someone who was like, oh, it's easy to write a book and publish a book and get it out there and sell it to millions of people, to someone who's like, oh my gosh message.

pamela cass: 15:09

This is why I'm so excited that you're going to keep hopefully writing and looking at an adult version, because I just think that this is probably one of the biggest things and in the world right now, people not not having emotional intelligence, so we don't even know how to interact with people, we don't, we go to judgment instead of empathy and, yeah, we don't even know how to process our own emotions and so we end up throwing our emotions on other people and so, yeah, and we blame our emotions.

Nicole Oke: 15:51

That's part of what I don't like either. I hear people being like, well, I was angry, so it's okay. No, it's okay to feel anger, but that doesn't make your behavior Okay Like. That was one thing I wanted to avoid, with my kids too, cause I've seen a few kids that throw these tantrums and they're like, well, it wasn't me, it was my emotions. No see, they're part of you, they're a small part of you, so you have to learn to rein those guys in, yeah, and be in control of them, wow.

Natalie Davis: 16:18

Well, and the way that I think that our society has really found a way to just dismiss it and make it less of an opportunity for us to dive deeper into ourselves is that we come up with the funny, like it's through comedic relief, right? Or let's say, the shirts or the memes that are. Forgive me for what I said when I was hangry, I didn't know. Now I've had something to eat, but I mean, there's some truth to that. There's a lot of truth to that, coming from a person who typically gets angry. So there's some truth to that. But again, it's, how are you going to behave? How are you going to show up? And then I think it's also the receiver of those emotions as well, and I think that that's where the possibilities really it's huge. It's you know you don't know where that person is coming from, what they're going through, what they just experienced right before connecting or engaging with you. So enter that with a clean slate, right. So that's or all of the possibilities, and let people process it. Yeah, I love it, I love it.

Natalie Davis: 17:14

Yeah, I wish I had it as a kid because, as you were talking about it, I thought about a lot of my childhood outbursts that I've had, and there were some big ones. But we don't need to talk about it because this is not therapy.

Nicole Oke: 17:27

So it's kind of funny that you mentioned that. So I talked about how the first book came to be, but most of the other ideas I've had have come from my own therapy sessions where I'm like I am struggling with this or like I can't handle this, and then it's like so what would I tell myself if I were my kids or if I were, you know, someone else? And it's been very therapeutic.

Natalie Davis: 17:54

Absolutely. That's what I imagined.

Nicole Oke: 17:57

I figured as much.

Natalie Davis: 17:58

Oh, I love that but we all do it in different ways right, I mean.

pamela cass: 18:01

That's how Pam and I found ourselves here with a podcast pretty much so can you share with us what can parents do to help their kids kind of build that social, emotional intelligence Other than the book, because we know we've got this great tool of the book. Are there other things that they can do?

Nicole Oke: 18:24

So the number one tip I have for parents is to utilize both books and movies and television to start the conversations. The reason that I really like this is because it creates a very safe space, because we're not talking about the child's emotions Anytime we start talking or at least what I've found with my girls is anytime I start talking to them about how they're feeling or they're responding to their emotions. It's still really emotionally charged and so they can't get into that logic like mind space. So it's not. I found that's not a good time to have the conversations, but I will take and I'm a huge Disney fan, I will take movies like Frozen, elemental, the Inside Out movies, which I really like because they kind of are also very similar to the Emotion Ninjas, and I will take those and kind of break them down and ask questions.

Nicole Oke: 19:22

Like I remember there's this scene in Frozen 2 that hit me as an adult too, and this was right around when COVID was happening and somebody asked Olaf the snowman. They were like are you okay, is everything okay? And he was like no, we're not okay, but that's okay. And I was just like, oh my gosh, like that is so brilliant. So I actually created a resource. I need to adapt it so I can use it for something else. Then it was using Frozen 2 to talk to your kids about COVID, and so I would take different elements from the movie so that they could talk to their kids about it.

Nicole Oke: 19:58

But really you can take and do that for almost any situation. Like there's a song in that movie where Anna is like the next right step or the next best step, and I was like, oh my gosh. Okay, parents, listen to this, because this is an opportunity to say we all feel overwhelmed sometimes. Sometimes things can feel so big that you just don't know what to do. So just remember your Disney song like the next best step, like what's the next step that you do, and then you just take the next step and the next step so that I love In Canto.

Nicole Oke: 20:33

There are so many moments in that movie Like I remember we were at the theater and at the end we had three generations my mom, myself, myself and my daughter and we were all crying when I was like, okay, this movie obviously has like an impact and there are so many moments that you can break down in that movie and talk about what you know, what is the character feeling. What are they going through? How would you feel if you were the only one in the family that didn't have a magical power? Like just so many opportunities? And then kids start to recognize when other people are feeling these different emotions. They start to empathize, they start to try to figure out how they would feel in that situation and, like I said at the beginning, it's all in this safe environment because it's not something that they're actually experiencing yeah, it's a layer of detachment, right like there's something.

pamela cass: 21:19

Yes, yes, yes yeah, and I have found that with disney movies over the years they are so much deeper than just the movie, if you were to dig in a little bit to them.

Nicole Oke: 21:29

There's such, there's so many messages inside of them, so so many, yeah, yeah I could do a whole podcast with you on the emotional elements I take out of Disney movies.

pamela cass: 21:40

I'm sad because I don't have any kids that go to Disney movies anymore. Because I was the like, we went to every Disney movie. So in Kanto I've not seen yet but Frozen, frozen 2, all the things. I've seen all of those. So I just need to start going by myself.

Nicole Oke: 21:54

I guess that's it Just Disney Plus. Yes, I had it, nobody, was's it Well?

pamela cass: 21:57

yes, yes, I had it. Nobody was watching it, so I'm like, all right, I'll just go.

Natalie Davis: 22:03

Now. You've got to resubscribe because you're working on your social, emotional intelligence.

Nicole Oke: 22:08

Absolutely.

Natalie Davis: 22:09

I feel it's warranted. I can write it off as a business expense, that's exactly it. There it is. I love that Well, nicole. I love that. Well, nicole. Do you have any pointers, tips or advice for our listeners, whether they're in a parental or guardian role, and even for our younger listeners? We have a couple of younger listeners that tune in every so often, but what advice do you have? As we are all I think we're all constantly working on our own social emotional intelligence, what tips do you have for us?

Nicole Oke: 22:42

My biggest tip and I've already kind of talked about this, but is just give yourself grace and be compassionate towards yourself, because there are so many things that go into all of it. Right Like, our emotions are not separate from our body. If you're not sleeping, if you're not eating, if you're not getting your exercise, all of those things impact your ability to stay regulated, and so it's. You just have to be okay and understand that you're not always gonna be at your best and then work on those reconnections afterwards.

Natalie Davis: 23:14

And Nicole, how can our listeners find you?

Nicole Oke: 23:17

Yes, the best way is my website, which is nicoleoakauthorcom, and the one nice thing about having a unique last name like O-K-E is that there aren't very many of us, so even if you just Google Nicole Oak, o-k-e, it's pretty much me that'll pop up. I have some freebies on there, some activity books. The Ninja Mindfulness Exercise that you mentioned is on the website pretty much me that'll pop up. I have some freebies on there, some activity books. The Ninja Mindfulness Exercise that you mentioned is on the website, and there's also some discounted links to where you can purchase the books. And then, of course, instagram, facebook, search for Nicole Oak, author, and you'll find me there too.

pamela cass: 23:53

Yeah, I know that I'm going to be purchasing several of these books for my kids that have kids for you know, grandkids and yeah, I'm so excited and and we will definitely keep in touch with you because when you come out with that adult version, I'm giving it to all my friends. Yes, I love it, Just need to get their stuff together.

Natalie Davis: 24:11

I was going to say no one take it personal, she's getting it, we love you guys, it's going to everyone, all people thank you so much

Natalie Davis: 24:21

absolutely, nicole. It has been an absolute pleasure. We want to thank you for taking the time out to share your work, your journey, your passion, your purpose with us and our listeners. We're so grateful for that. We will make sure that we put all of your contact information in the show notes so folks can find you. And if you all are looking for more information on what's happening in the world of Reignite Resilience, you can head on over to reigniteresiliencecom or find us on Facebook or Instagram. And if you've not already done so, make sure that you subscribe to our weekly think letter. It is jam-packed with additional information about our episodes and our guests and Pam and my takeaways and additional tools and resources to help you continue to ignite the fire within. So until next time, we'll see you all soon.

Speaker 1: 25:08

Thanks everyone. Thank you for joining us today on the Reignite Resilience podcast. We hope you had some aha moments and learned a few new real life ideas. To fuel the flames of passion, Please subscribe on your favorite streaming platform, like or download your favorite episodes and, of course, share with your friends and family. We look forward to seeing you again next time on Reignite Resilience.