Cultivating Emotional Intelligence in Children + Resiliency with Nicole Oke (part 1)

Award-winning children's book author Nicole Oke joins us to unravel the transformative power of emotional intelligence in children. Nicole takes us through her personal journey of overcoming emotional struggles and her passionate mission to fill the gap in children's literature by going beyond merely validating feelings. Inspired by her own experiences, she crafts stories that equip young minds with the skills to identify, understand, and regulate their emotions. Her popular character Izzy, from "Penny, Panda and the Emotion Ninjas," embarks on exciting adventures, teaching children how to navigate their emotions with courage and resilience. This episode promises to inspire parents and educators alike to empower the next generation with emotional tools she wished she had as a child.

We also dive into the nuances of social dynamics influenced by technology and media, challenging the automatic reactions we often have to everyday interactions. By examining the role of conflicting emotions, this episode outlines strategies for children—and adults—to interpret social cues with more empathy and understanding. Nicole shares touching anecdotes, including how her daughter displayed empathy while watching a movie, reinforcing the notion that recognizing emotions in others can be a gateway to deeper connections. Tune in for a thoughtful exploration of emotional intelligence that encourages listeners to reflect on their own emotional journeys, and envision a world where emotional literacy is as fundamental as reading and writing.

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Chapters

• 0:06 Cultivating Emotional Intelligence in Children
• 12:52 Navigating Conflicting Emotions in Children
• 20:26 Developing Emotional Intelligence Skills

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:06

All of us reach a point in time where we are depleted and need to somehow find a way to reignite the fire within. But how do we spark that flame? Welcome to Reignite Resilience, where we will venture into the heart of the human spirit. Resilience where we will venture into the heart of the human spirit. We'll discuss the art of reigniting our passion and strategies to stoke our enthusiasm. And now here are your hosts, natalie Davis and Pamela Cass.

Natalie Davis: 0:41

Welcome back to another episode of Reignite Resilience. I am your co-host, natalie Davis, and I am so excited to be back with you all today, and joining me is your co-host, pam Kass. Pam, how are you today?

Pamela Cass: 0:55

I am fabulous and I love starting out the week on Monday doing a podcast interview. I just it's such a fun way to start the week and it has been so fun meeting all of these people from just all over the world, around the world, around the world.

Natalie Davis: 1:10

Now we're like international.

Pamela Cass: 1:12

So that's even more, even more fun.

Natalie Davis: 1:14

So yeah, I feel like the world is just getting smaller and smaller because we've had so many guests international guests over the last couple of weeks, so you all are in for a treat here soon, and I've met quite a few people that are just in Colorado visiting and attending conferences over the last couple of weeks from the most fabulous locations, and I'm thinking I love it here. I love the people that I get to engage with.

Pamela Cass: 1:40

I love it and we just keep having new people come into our world. I didn't tell you, but I got a package in the mail yesterday, a book signed by the author wanting to be a guest on our podcast. So I will share the book with you and, yeah, we'll get her on as soon as we can.

Natalie Davis: 1:55

That sounds amazing. I love it. There's so much excitement around it. So our community just continues to grow and grow. But you mentioned starting our week off with an interview, which we have one today and I'm so excited about because, well, maybe for me it's like 22 years behind the time that I should have heard this.

Natalie Davis: 2:15

I know where was this when my kids were little, exactly exactly, but we have a fabulous guest that's joining us today and an area that I think is really, really important when we look at the space of parenting. So, pam, why don't you introduce our guest today and we will dive?

Pamela Cass: 2:31

right in? Yeah, absolutely so. Today we have joining us Nicole Oak. She is an award winning children's book author, mother and member of the Wildland Firefighting Community. She is based in Boise, idaho, and is a champion for social emotional intelligence and, as a parent of two girls with big emotions, she understands the importance of teaching children the skills they need to identify, process and regulate emotions. I think I know a few adults that might need this too. Yeah, so I am so excited to have you with us, so I'm going to hand it off to you and, just you know, share your story and how you got to this place where you are writing books about children's emotions sure, yeah, thank you so much for having me.

Nicole Oke: 3:19

I'm excited to be here. The journey to actually getting to the point where I was writing children's books is kind of a weird one. I've always enjoyed writing, but I never like grew up thinking that I was going to write books, let alone children's books, and it all kind of started about eight years ago, shortly after my first daughter was born. I was very inspired by a lot of different things happening in my life at that time and I thought you know, I really want to create something, I want to do something for her. And that's when the first idea of kind of writing a children's book occurred to me. But I had no idea what I was going to write it about. So it was kind of like this little idea planted in the back of my mind and then fast forward a couple years. I had gone through some really interesting and trying situations in my life. A lot of things were going on at work, there was a lot of turbulence, I was not doing a good job of regulating my own emotions, I was struggling in the emotional intelligence area. I was kind of going through not necessarily like a midlife crisis, but just kind of growth, I guess, and it was, you know, as growth can be a little painful. And so I really delved into different areas of self-help, and that's kind of how I found emotional intelligence. I started researching all of these different tools and ways I could go about coping with my emotions, working through them, processing them, and at one point it just kind of like hit me. I looked over at my oldest daughter, who was then about four and we had just had our second child, and I kept thinking, ok, here I am, in my mid 30s, like trying to figure this out, what about them? I was like, what, what can I do to, you know, make it so that they're not in their mid-30s, trying to figure out how to work through all of these things? And so I went on to Amazon, which I think is, you know, google and Amazon. That seems to be everybody's go-to nowadays. But.

Nicole Oke: 5:25

But I Googled and or went on Amazon and looked for books on emotions for kids, and I found a few that were really good and there's some good ones out there but so many of them focused on just validating emotions, and I wanted something that went beyond that. I was like, okay, yes, emotions are good, emotions serve a purpose. But I want to start, like creating a skillset in my kids. I want them to be able to say, okay, I'm feeling anger, but then I want them to say, now, this is what I'm going to do with it or this is how I'm going to work through it.

Nicole Oke: 6:03

And I couldn't find a book that I felt like really started to build those skill sets. And that's when I thought, well, I can't find one, maybe I should write one. And that's kind of how my children's book journey started. It started with Penny Panda and the Gift of Possibility and that one is kind of based they're all loosely based off of my children, but it was kind of dealing with some of like the sibling jealousy that arises when you introduce a new baby and kind of some of those thoughts and meanings that we give to things is at that age and how to challenge those and kind of get curious about it. And that's how the series was born.

Pamela Cass: 6:46

Oh my gosh. So you found all these books that identify emotions, help kids identify emotions, but nothing to give them the tools to actually process through them. So what was the research you did to come up with the tools that you found?

Nicole Oke: 7:03

So I would go back to a lot of the reading that I had been doing a lot of on emotional intelligence, like through Daniel Goleman.

Nicole Oke: 7:11

I pulled some of the tools out of one of my favorite books called Just Listen, and there were a few other places that I went and I just kind of tried to break down what they were teaching adults into what could be comprehended by a child. Obviously there's some things because, you know, as children grow older there's times in our development when we can understand different concepts, and so I had to be kind of cognizant of that and careful about where they were in their development. But I figured, even if they aren't kind of to the point to be able to truly grasp some of the concepts, just the fact that even at ages like four and five that they are thinking about emotions, talking about emotions, questioning emotions, getting curious about it that I felt was a good foundation to kind of start off on. And then, as they get older and reread the books, you can kind of pick up different things at different points in time.

Pamela Cass: 8:10

I love it. So, really, it was a book that was for you to help you process through your emotions. And then you're like, oh well, I should just do this for the kids too. So I mean so perfect and such a timely thing, because I you know, natalie and I both have kids with our adult kids.

Natalie Davis: 8:26

now Sometimes they still have emotional outbursts at least mine do, and so I think everyone does right we all do, so I love this.

Pamela Cass: 8:40

I think this is such a great tool for people.

Natalie Davis: 8:43

Yeah, and what an amazing process. Right, we talk about the ability to really learn something is through teaching it, and so you're taking yourself through this journey and this path. And then I mean you're talking simplifying it, but still it's. The books are layered in complexity. That's what I'll say. Right, so you can read it at a younger age and, like you mentioned, come back and circle back around and you're taking out an additional nugget or a tip once you dive into the book when you're seven, eight, nine or 10. Right, so it resonates really differently for the children that pick it up, oh for sure.

Nicole Oke: 9:19

And I've even had a lot of parents, like I've had friends that have. You know, they bought the book not because they had a little one, but to be supportive. And they've come back and they've said you know, they bought the book not because they had a little one, but to be supportive. And they've come back and they've said you know what I use? The possibility game. They're like I play with my 16 year old at home and it's kind of an interesting thing. I've actually one of my favorite things and also sometimes, it's apparent, one of the ones that makes me go ah is, uh, that my eight-year-old has heard about this so much and you know we talk about it so much that she starts calling me out on my own moments of like missing out. And just just about a week ago, I don't even remember what I said, but she said now, mom, that's not the only possibility, do we need to play the possibility game?

Pamela Cass: 10:05

I love it, oh, oh, when they turn it on us.

Nicole Oke: 10:10

I do. Don't use my words on me.

Pamela Cass: 10:12

Right.

Nicole Oke: 10:14

It's like a super proud moment, but then also like a I don't want to be called out on my stuff.

Pamela Cass: 10:20

Nobody does.

Natalie Davis: 10:21

Exactly. Well, Nicole, just so you know, they never stop doing that. My oldest daughter will, from time to time, if I happen to skip my morning routine, she will call me out and say, hey, did you skip your morning routine this morning? And it's just, if I'm a little bit edgier, a little bit spicier and I'm like, yes, I did, I probably need to go back and do it, Because if you recognize it, other people recognize it too. So let me go back and circle back around. Recognize it too. So let me go back and circle back around. They're great, it's the kids are great to just be a mirror for us.

Pamela Cass: 10:50

Oh, for sure, For sure. Now, when you were writing these books, did some of the tools that you have given so I'm looking at the ninja mindfulness exercise, so some of these tools so ninja breathing, ninja focus, ninja senses, ninja kindness and ninja relaxation so did you test these out on your kids when you were kind of going through this process, and how does it work with younger kids versus a little bit older kids? And I'd love to hear a little bit about that.

Nicole Oke: 11:20

The mindfulness exercises you're talking about go along with the second book that came out just last month actually, and it's Penny Panda and the Emotion Ninjas and I would say that there's a mix I tried some of those out on my kids, Some of them I took and turned them into ninja exercises from just things that we do as a family.

Nicole Oke: 11:41

But one of the main things that I've been trying to work on with my kids and with myself and my husband too, is really being able to sense the physical changes in our bodies when we experience the different emotions. Because you know, we I actually did a reading of the book just a couple, like last week to my daughter's class and we talked about you know, really pay attention. The next time you get excited about something, Do you feel the tingling in your fingers? Do you feel it in your toes? Like where physically are you feeling it? And so a lot of those mindfulness exercises that's part of what I'm trying to really encourage is to be self-aware, be paying attention to what your body is doing and be able to recognize when these different like signs and symptoms are coming up and to correlate with the emotions that you're experiencing.

Pamela Cass: 12:33

I love that.

Natalie Davis: 12:34

Yeah, I love. Well, can we dive into the emotional ninjas? Can you take us through? And when you all look at the book for our listeners, they're adorable. They're like the color of the rainbow, so each ninja is a different color. Yeah, do you mind taking us through the emotional ninjas?

Nicole Oke: 12:51

yeah, not at all. So to set the scene, in penny, panda and the emotion, ninjas, the main character, izzy, is getting ready to go on stage to do her school talent show, to do a dance, and she is so excited and then she kind of looks out at the crowd you know every kid does looking for their family, and she sees them and she's all happy. And then she kind of realizes like there's a lot of people out there and so she starts feeling the butterflies in her stomach, and so the first two pages they talk about the tingling in the toes and the excitement, and then the butterflies in the stomach just kind of continuing that like trying to encourage kids to start to recognize those sensations. So she realizes that she's feeling two conflicting emotions at one time because she's excited and she's nervous. And so then she gets confused as well because she's like how can I be both excited and nervous? She gets confused as well Cause she's like how can I be both excited and nervous? So she goes to her trusted stuffed Panda, penny, who is a Penny for her thoughts, and so Penny is a Panda that comes stuck to animal that comes to life Anytime.

Nicole Oke: 13:59

Izzy is having big feelings and they just kind of talk to each other about what's happening. So she runs backstage to Penny and she's like talk to each other about what's happening. So she runs backstage to Penny and she's like Penny, I need you. And she's kind of explains like I'm excited and I'm nervous, but how do you feel too at the same time. So Penny kind of guides her through doing a couple of things. One she has her look around backstage at the other kids that are getting ready to perform, and she's like do they look nervous? And so you kind of notice that like one of her friends is frowning, one of them is her hands are shaking, another one's biting her nails. And so Izzy's like oh yeah, okay, I can see how maybe they look a little nervous too. And so at that point Penny kind of dives into. You know, every emotion is here for a reason. Every emotion protects us and guides us and serves a purpose. But they can be sneaky. We never know how many are going to show up or when they're going to show up. And at that point Izzy kind of puts two and two together and she's like sneaky, protective, she's like ninjas, and that's where the idea of them kind of showing up as these ninjas occurs and then it kind of goes into a spread showing you how she imagines her ninjas.

Nicole Oke: 15:13

And when I developed this part, I got to work with the illustrator and it was really fun to kind of talk about what each emotion ninja looked like, because I wanted them to look kind of like your traditional ninja, but each one has a special kind of instead of like nunchucks, excitement has pom-poms and joy has flowers and anger has flames that come up out of its hands and nervous has a shield because it's there to like protect you. So we really tried to take these different emotions and turn them into these fun little characters and as they kind of go on through the book, talking about normalizing that it's okay to have more than one emotion. It happens to a lot of folks. The other main theme that we put forward in the book is you are in charge, you are the boss. These ninjas are here to help you and to protect you, but you get to decide what to do with them. So we reemphasize that a couple of times because I really want kids to grow up knowing that, even though sometimes it feels like we're out of control of our emotions, because that even happens as adults right, we feel like our emotions are running everything. It's important to know that they're just a part of who we are, so we can embrace that, we can listen to the messages that they bring to us and then we get to decide what to do with it. So I think it's really cool because Izzy goes on to tell her like ninjas.

Nicole Oke: 16:42

She tells Nervous, I think. She says you know, I've been practicing, it's okay, you can go take a break. She tells Fear that she's in a safe space, there's no need to worry, you can watch the show. And then she invites excitement on stage because she's like I can always have more excitement when I dance. Excitement on stage because she's like I can always have more excitement when I dance. And so it's just this idea of you know being able to work with our emotions and then take charge of them and really, kind of you know, regulate and and bring that power forward and be confident in who we are and how we handle ourselves.

Pamela Cass: 17:15

I love it. And so, with your kids, helping them kind of be aware of their own emotions, have they become aware of other? Because I know other children's emotions, because I think that would be such a powerful thing for any of us to be aware of other people's emotions and how they're responding to something in that moment and how we can help them process through that that moment and how we can help them process through that.

Nicole Oke: 17:43

Yes, and they have, and it's sometimes it's hard for me. So my, my oldest daughter, I feel like she's just a very old soul. So sometimes I work with her and I think, okay, how much is this just like part of her nature versus the things that we're working on? But we've had some really cool moments, where one that I remember we were actually driving in the car and she was just watching she was watching a Mario movie, the Mario brother movies, and I just heard her this like big heavy sigh and I was like what's wrong, sis? And she's like I'm just watching this movie and this character has been separated from her parents and I'm just imagining how hard that has to be for her and what she must be going through.

Nicole Oke: 18:29

It was one of those really like proud parent moments where it's like, okay, you are recognizing the emotions, you're feeling the empathy, you're able to kind of put yourself into that situation. The cool thing is and we're working on a book for this too but one of the things that we use a lot is empathy plus action equals compassion and so taking, you know, building that empathy in my child is so cool, but then to watch her start to add the action and do those acts of compassion has been so amazing. She was at a basketball practice and they're in second grade, just to kind of put some context in it, and so emotions are like all over the place and in this like 30 minute time frame I think I saw three different kids crying for three different reasons.

Natalie Davis: 19:21

Sounds about right time frame. I think I saw three different kids crying for three different reasons and that's right.

Nicole Oke: 19:24

and twice they were kids that were like on her side at the gym and she stopped each time and she went over and she kneeled next to them and she asked them what happened and she was like was rubbing their back and it. It was just so cool to watch. I mean, that shows so many things right, she was watching what was happening, she was being aware of what was happening around her. She was also picking up on those social cues of when they were upset. She was showing the compassion, she was feeling the empathy. It was just so fun to watch.

Pamela Cass: 20:00

That's incredible.

Natalie Davis: 20:01

I love that. I love that, nicole, in your research and your own personal journey as you started to write these books, what have you uncovered, or what has been the most enlightening thing that you've discovered, if it pertains to kids, the books themselves, or even adults, and maybe some of those lessons that we missed or didn't have the opportunity to learn, the way that you're delivering it to this next generation that's able to learn.

Nicole Oke: 21:21

I would say I have two answers to that. The first one, I think for the kids and what I really tried to put forward in the first book, is I had learned to really start to question the meanings that I give to events. And the best example I had was and this was it's called the Lefkoe method was where I kind of started learning about it, but there's all sorts of research on it, and they were talking about how, when something happens for example, someone walks past you and doesn't say hello, someone walks past you and doesn't say hello we as human beings assign an automatic meaning to that. Yes, for whatever reason, my automatic meaning was they're mad at me, like I just assumed. Like they're not talking to me, they're not saying hello, they must be mad at us. And when I asked my friend, he said oh, I assume that they just don't like me. And it was so interesting that just in just between the two of us, right, we had a different, that different of an assumption. And so through this process you kind of start to learn to question that automatic meaning that we give to it and to think of all the other possibilities. So that's kind of the possibility game that they play in the first book, and so it could be possible that they were running late for a meeting, so they didn't say hello. It's possible they didn't see you so they didn't say hello. You know, it's possible that they were distracted by something going on at home, so they didn't say hello. And that was kind of my first thing that I was like I was thinking about like middle school and high school and all of the communicating without communicating that happens and all the assumptions, and I was like, okay, girls, this, I want you to grasp this and get this so that once you're entering into the middle school, high school arena, like you stop taking so much of this personally, because 90% of the time it has nothing to do with you and it has everything to do with the other person. Yeah, so that would be the part that I really want the kids to learn.

Nicole Oke: 23:24

The part that was probably the hardest for me was acknowledging and I think we all know it, but being okay with and accepting that I'm human and that I can. You know, there were moments in time where I was like I've got this, like I am mastering emotional intelligence, I am going forward like no one can knock me down, and then the universe is that often does does something that knocks you down and humbles you a little bit, and so just learning to give myself grace and understanding that I'm a human, that I'm going to make mistakes, that even though I'm passionate about emotional intelligence, it doesn't mean I'm going to always be on my game, and so that's the lesson for, like adults, that I always try to put forward is do your best, try your best, but it's okay to make a mistake and there's things we can do to fix our mistakes. So it's not, it's not a deal breaker.

Pamela Cass: 24:19

Yeah, yeah, well. And then I mean you talked about the stories that we tell ourselves, then fill in text messaging and social media. Like I didn't. We didn't have that when I was growing up, so now these kids have that extra layer of what did they mean with that text message? They must not like me, they must be mad at me. I mean all those stories that we create in our minds, those possibilities that we create.

Nicole Oke: 24:43

And now they communicate in emojis.

Pamela Cass: 24:45

Yeah, oh yeah. What's an emoji, right?

Nicole Oke: 24:48

You're not even misinterpreting words.

Natalie Davis: 25:01

You're like I literally don't know what this means. I had I responded to my daughter's text message a few weeks ago with an emoji and she replied back why would you use that emoji? And I was like, oh my gosh, what did I just say? And she's like nothing, it's appropriate. I just don't know what, how you'd have that. I'm like, well, I don't know.

Pamela Cass: 25:10

I don't know what I'm saying yeah, the misunderstanding well, somebody. Just I just saw something where the this, where I've always done it as a prayer, is actually high five, and I'm like I've been high fiving people instead of the prayer too. I'm like, oh my gosh, talk about for you you, I'm so sorry about your loss, hi.

Natalie Davis: 25:40

I'm sorry to everybody that I know that you guys Pam didn't know.

Pamela Cass: 25:46

I didn't know. I apologize. In my mind that's what it was. So yeah, so, so, okay. So you've got all of these incredible tools for kids. Do you have like adjusted versions for teenagers, for adults? For some of our listeners that might be listening that they're like I need this in my life, not only my kids.

Nicole Oke: 26:07

I don't have anything yet, so I do have for anyone that wants to subscribe to my mailing list, and I'm going to put this on my website too, because I think it's really important. But I have books that I recommend for adults, like some of the ones that I did. That really stuck out to me. That really helped me through some of my journey, so I'll make sure I get that on the website soon so that everyone can reference that.

Nicole Oke: 26:30

One of the ideas that I'm toying with that actually it was kind of a running joke for a while and then I started seriously thinking about it, probably three or four days ago is writing a children's book for adults that does kind of the same thing as Penny Panda, except like in reverse. And so it started from a day that I was very dysregulated and I reacted in not the most appropriate manner to a situation, and my oldest daughter witnessed it, and so after the fact, you know, I had to calm myself down. You know, do all the things for me, and then I had to go back and have the conversation with her about. You know, this is what happened. This wasn't an appropriate response.

Nicole Oke: 27:15

Do the reconnecting talk about what should have happened, all of that, and so I shared this story with a couple of friends, mainly to laugh about it, and then afterwards they were like you should really write that book and I thought, well, how fun would it be to have a book where it could be. You know, the penny pandas are about my daughter, so these ones could be me and it could be my own, like manifestation of my internal, you know, subconscious, and and her and I can be having the same conversations that Penny and Izzy are having, except it could be done in maybe a little more like sarcastic, humorous type manner. Yeah, and I kind of like the idea of doing it in a child's, like a children's book format, because it'd be short, it'd be easy, it could be relatable, yeah, and I think it could be a great companion book to the Penny Panda books, because I mean, talk about, our kids are watching us.

Pamela Cass: 28:08

They watch everything that we do, how we react, how we interact with other people, and so to have that almost as a okay, you've got this for your kids, but oh, by the way, you got to do some work too.

Natalie Davis: 28:19

Here's your own mirror. Yes, exactly Watching what you're doing Okay Incredible.

Pamela Cass: 28:26

I love it. I'm super excited about that.

Natalie Davis: 28:29

We hope that you've enjoyed part one of our two-part interview with Nicole Oak, a mother and an author that is focused on emotional intelligence education. How often have we assigned meaning to events in our lives and that's not actually the case? Come back and join us for part two, where we're going to continue to hear more of Nicole's story and more about Penny Panda and the Emotion Ninjas.

Speaker 1: 28:54

We'll see you soon. Thank you for joining us today on the Reignite Resilience podcast. We hope you had some aha moments and learned a few new real life ideas. To fuel the flames of passion, please subscribe on your favorite streaming platform, like or download your favorite episodes and, of course, share with your friends and family. We look forward to seeing you again next time on Reignite Resilience.