From Rock Bottom To Leadership + Resiliency with Wes Towers (Part 1)

What does it really take to keep showing up when life knocks the wind out of you? We sit down with Australian website strategist and Uplift360 founder Wes Towers to trace a raw arc from early scarcity to building a thriving agency—and the night he cried under his desk, wiped his eyes, dimmed the lights, and still closed the biggest deal of his career. That moment becomes a gateway into practical resilience, nervous system regulation, and the kind of leadership that builds trust when everyone else is turning up the noise.

Wes shares how breath work, cold plunges, and short regulation rituals helped him move from survival to steadiness, especially while leading a team and serving clients under pressure. We dig into the fundamental shift from “earning like an employee” to building a purpose-led business that grows your capacity, not just your revenue. Along the way, we explore why human connection is the true competitive edge in trades and construction, where reputation travels faster than ads and a website is only as good as the conversation that follows.

On the strategy side, Wes opens his playbook for differentiation in an AI-saturated world. Instead of vague claims, he guides founders through a candid “shadow” audit of industry frustrations, then flips each pain into a clear, ownable promise. That becomes the spine of brand, messaging, and service—so marketing is a promise and operations are the proof. We also talk about using AI responsibly: encode your voice and values into robust prompts that act like modern style guides, or risk publishing generic content that fades into the feed.

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Transcript

Opening: Why We Burn Out

SPEAKER_00 0:06

All of us reach a point in time where we are depleted and need to somehow find a way to reignite the fire within. But how do we spark that flame? Welcome to Reignite Resilience, where we will venture into the heart of the human spirit. We'll discuss the art of reigniting our passion and strategies to stoke our enthusiasm. And now here are your hosts, Natalie Davis and Pamela Cass.

SPEAKER_02 0:41

Welcome back to another episode of Reignite Resilience. I'm your co-host, Natalie Davis, and I'm so excited to be back with all of you today. And joining me, of course, is your co-host Pam Cass. Hello, Pam. How are you?

SPEAKER_01 0:53

Hello. I am fabulous. Midweek hump day. This week has gone by fast. Yes. And it's funny because yesterday when we recorded, we didn't even know what day of the week it was. Well, I knew you didn't know. I knew you didn't know.

Hosts Banter And Live Event Recap

SPEAKER_02 1:12

Yeah, now you're like halfway through the week. I was, I was very much aware of what day of the week it was. You were ready. You were already ready. So I love it. I was. Well, you know, here's the thing. I think that it's important for our listeners to know. Like we we constantly have these moments and these seasons where we don't see each other like live, even though we live so close to each other and we're about to be in that season. So Pam and I just to get to see each other as we're recording the pod. But we did get to spend some time together when we did our Reignite live event here in Loveland, Colorado. And we're gonna we're gonna have to let our listeners know about that. I've had quite a few of our guests reach out to us or reach out to me after the event just to get some coaching, get some insight, just to follow up. And, you know, here we are. It's February, and a lot of resolutions have been set, and a lot of resolutions have been broken. So maybe we set something up that we talk to our listeners about it.

SPEAKER_01 2:09

Yeah, I think we we're gonna have to put that on a on a pin to do for sure.

SPEAKER_02 2:14

I think it's important. It's important for us to give intimate. Not today, though. That's not where we're going to do today. Not today. We have a very special guest joining us today. So, Pam, I'm gonna give it to you. Why don't you let our listeners know who's joining us?

SPEAKER_01 2:29

Absolutely. So, this is so much fun. Today we have Wes Towers. He is an Australian website strategist, founder of Uplift360, and author of The Simple Manifesto. He helps trade and construction businesses build trust online with clear messaging, stronger websites, and simple systems that make growth feel achievable. Wes is also the host of the Built Trusted Chosen podcast, where he shares practical lessons on visibility, leadership, and resilience in business and life. Welcome all the way from Australia. We were just kind of joking a little bit when you came on that it is tomorrow morning for you. And so we were hoping to get some tips on what's going to happen in the future.

SPEAKER_04 3:16

That's right. Yeah, and hump day is long gone. So I don't know. You still don't know what day it is. We don't even know what day it is.

SPEAKER_02 3:23

This is officially like countdown to Friday. He's like, what are you talking about?

unknown 3:28

That's it.

SPEAKER_04 3:29

Yeah, on the window for sure. That's right. So uh it's a pleasure to be with you both. It's uh I've listened to a bunch of your podcasts and so on and a whole lot of fun. So I've been on a lot of podcasts over the last six months, but this one I've I've been excited to be on with you two hosts. Yeah, it's exciting.

Wes’s Early Life And Money Lessons

SPEAKER_02 3:45

Thank you. Well, thanks for being here. And we kind of swim in the same lane, right? You do a lot of discussion on resiliency as well. So excited to hear about all of the projects that you have going on. Why don't we just start? You tell your, I know Pam did a brief intro. Tell the listeners about yourself.

SPEAKER_04 3:59

Yeah, well, uh, I run a business, digital agency. And so I think running a business, it just amplifies everything in life. So the ups are higher, the the downs are lower. It's just a wild, wild life. And I I I enjoy it. I like those extremes in life. I I think there's more reward, more risk. It's exciting. But we get to serve a whole bunch of people as well and see them flourishing, which is the joy of working for yourself and seeing firsthand the results that people are producing and so on. So yeah, I love it. I love it. Um, but uh, as I said, life has been a journey as it is for everybody. So yeah, a lot of lessons learned the hard way, I suppose.

SPEAKER_01 4:34

Tell us about some of those lessons. So you grew up in Australia. So kind of tell us like what brought you to where you are today with being a business owner.

SPEAKER_04 4:43

There's so many ways we could tackle this and we'd be here along, you know, we'd be here weeks, weeks to go through everything. I mean, growing up, we were quite poor. We I was just talking to mum actually last night, had dinner with her and my partner. And so we were talking about the old days and being really quite poor a lot of the time, just not enough food in the pantry and so on until payday hit the following day, that sort of thing. So we always we didn't starve, but we knew it was the last day before the money came back and we could buy some more food. So yeah, it was kind of difficult in that way. But I also had the opposite, like the polar opposite in terms of seeing my uncle flourishing in business. And also I heard of stories of my grandparents that were retired at that time as a child, but they ran successful bakery businesses, so they launched and sold a whole bunch of businesses. So I had these stories in my mind as a youngster, realizing hey, there's ways that you don't have to be poor. These other people have been able to find ways to create a success. And that I guess that was embedded into my childhood to want to find a way to produce uh income that's something uh greater than what I grew up with.

SPEAKER_01 5:49

So planted that little seed, so you saw the difference, the extreme, you know, not you know, knowing that the paycheck was coming, barely any food, and then you see these others that have this success. And so you kind of got the entrepreneurial bug when you were young. When was your first kind of business?

First Clients And Starting A Business

SPEAKER_04 6:08

After studying, I I worked in a marketing company in Sydney. So award-winning marketing company, it was the year 2000, so the Olympics year there. So everything was pretty exciting. Got my first job, but they'd never designed a website, and so they won a project to do a website, and they said, Well, you're the young guy, better figure out how to build that site. So I did that, which was really cool. It was the perfect blend for me of the creative and the technical. So I love both those things, and so to get that, I just loved it. So I worked in that marketing company who merged with another one only a few years, and then I moved back to Melbourne and uh thought, well, I'm gonna start my own business eventually. But this opportunity popped up. Someone had tried to start a business and it just wasn't successful, and so we only had a couple of clients, and he said, I've had enough of this, I'm giving it up. And I said, Well, what are you doing with your couple of clients? And he said, Well, you can have them. And so I took those couple of clients, and that was the start of my business. So it was pretty small to start with, and I had no idea how to do business. I mean, didn't know how to do the books, the proposals. I'd just done the work behind the scenes, never really spoken to anyone in meetings and so on. And I was pretty shy back then, and that surprises people now. But I I guess you just grow and mature and you get comfortable in your own skin. So you find ways to be your own authentic self and and to communicate in the way in which you who you are. And people either resonate with that or they don't, and that's perfectly fine.

SPEAKER_01 7:31

So it's funny. So you take over these two clients, start a business, have no idea really how to run a business. So you're just like, I know how to do the work, but I'm not quite sure about that. I imagine that would lead to some necessity to have some resilience, because I imagine you face some challenges along the way with that.

Beyond Income: Vision And Growth

SPEAKER_04 7:48

Well, yeah, it was always so the first goal really was to create an income equivalent to being employed. That was the that was like a little mini benchmark, you know, because you earn a whole lot less initially. The the beauty of it was because I was still young, I was married, newly, fairly newly married. Um so but we had two incomes. So, but then soon after we had a mortgage and then we had kids soon after that. And so the stakes just got higher and the responsibilities got higher as the business kind of grew with it. So it kind of forced me to expand and grow and make it something so uh we we could live.

SPEAKER_00 8:21

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 8:22

And I know that you said like kind of the focus or the emphasis of the goal was just basically make an income that's equivalent to like a regular employee job, right? Where you're not the entrepreneur. But what was the goal that kept you going? Because that goal doesn't keep us getting up out of bed every day.

SPEAKER_04 8:39

No, that's right. That's a short-term view. And you certainly need a bigger vision for your life to get you through the hard times. Otherwise, you would just go back to if that's the end goal, we'll just go back and get a job because you'll you'll fulfill that right away. Yeah, yeah, that's right. But they, you know, I always just love the idea of creating something worthwhile and and I love learning as well. So I I had to develop as a person. So yeah, it's less about the the income these days. Once those things are kind of bedded down and and you're doing just fine, it's about getting excited about the work you're doing. And so that's why I launched the podcast even this year, because it helps me to grow. I mean, I've been a guest a whole bunch of times, which is great. And I kind of learnt a few things from the guests, but launching out on my own, it's a whole different thing being on the other side of the conversation. So it is, it's I just love the growth opportunities that businesses bring. Always looking for new ways to develop myself as well. It keeps life uh fun for me.

SPEAKER_02 9:37

So always keeping that growth mindset, being a lifelong learner. I think that's an important piece, uh, not just for entrepreneurs, but just for people in general to realize and seize those opportunities to be a lifelong learner.

Personal Crisis And True Resilience

SPEAKER_04 9:48

Yeah, that's right. And there's a it's a roller coaster rider, as I said. So life and business, it all sort of intertwines and merges and and things are crazy at sometimes. And the last few years certainly been a few challenges as well. Just at my worst, I I remember just crying under the desk like a baby. My marriage was dissolving. I'd I'd found out something in the marriage that I felt was irredeemable. And so, you know, from one day to the next, I was sleeping under the desk at the at the office and uh, you know, trying to trying to figure out where I go next and how I rebuild life and and all that kind of stuff. So I've come through that sort of season, speak of resilience. I mean, the the thing I've uh uh discovered in life is that the the biggest challenges and setbacks you face are the biggest times where you learn who you truly are and how resilient you truly are. Like you after some of the challenges, and you know, it was difficult, I realized, hey, I'm stronger than I think, and I can actually survive this. I think that's the human, all of us, the human condition is we think we're weaker than we actually are. We're much stronger than we are, than we think we are, if that makes sense. That's my experience anyway.

SPEAKER_01 10:57

And each time we face something, it makes us a little bit stronger to deal with the next thing that that comes along.

SPEAKER_04 11:04

So yeah, just yeah. Wow. Yeah, that's it. It's all all about growth.

SPEAKER_02 11:10

Yeah, it is. It's all about growth. And and you as you look at that season, Wes, I mean, you're here, you're building a business and you're going through personal life change with your your marriage dissolving. I mean, tell us what like holistically, because all of life is happening, right? And so as we talk about resiliency, it's like resiliency in one space, but then you also have an entire company that's looking to you for your leadership, right? And and so how are you managing all of it uh as you're as you're coming out on the other side?

Compartmentalizing Strengths And Limits

SPEAKER_04 11:39

Sometimes your greatest strength is your greatest weakness as well. So I was able to compartmentalize business and personal life to a large degree, which is helpful because the business kept flourishing actually. It did really well. I uh that time I was crying under the desk, I realized at that state in uh that I had a really important meeting for a super large client here in five minutes. I had to pull myself together. I didn't put the light, I've got lights, put left them off so they couldn't see my red eyes, and I closed that sale, which was remarkable, the biggest biggest deal I've ever done in that horrible state. So I realized I had the ability to compartmentalize and function really well, which is great, but it's also the inverse, it's not it's not great as well, because it means that you can hide uh things in within for the long term, and it's no way to live a sustainable life for the long term. So, whilst it will get you through a difficult time, it's not helpful for the long term. I went to a psychologist who she was brilliant. I was so fortunate to get a brilliant psychologist who was really progressive. She encouraged me to do breath work and cold plunges and a whole bunch of other alternative ways to regulate myself. And that's been helpful as just as a business person, because uh you know, business is high intensity at times. So having ways and mechanisms to regulate myself and understand myself a little better. She was so good. I only had six sessions with her, but they were powerful and sent me on a path which was far greater than what I'd been before.

Breath Work, Cold Plunge, Regulation

SPEAKER_01 13:07

Yeah. Do you still use some of the tools that she shared with you, the breath work and the cold plunging and that? Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 13:14

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I've got the cold plunge always set up there, the breath work. I I don't typically do the longer sessions, which I once did, but I have the little mechanism, you know, the little ones that I can do at the desk if I'm, you know, if I'm feeling a little agitated or something. I need a little reset. It's like a toolbox, little things that I can do to help regulate and get back on track and move up move on. So it's been really powerful. As I said, some of these the I would never have discovered these strategies and tools if things didn't get as bad as they did. So that's the upside. The sort of thing.

SPEAKER_01 13:46

Yeah, and I I know we're seeing s the breath work and regulation and all of that is starting to be more talked about, especially in the corporate world, because we are all if you're an entrepreneur or even just a CO of a company or whatever, in sort of leadership, you're running at that high stress level all the time. And it's just wearing on your entire nervous system. And if you're not regulated, the people around you know you're not regulated, and it just is like this big trickle-down effect. So I love that she introduced that to you because I mean, I've done counseling and I've never had them say, let's breathe together, or let's do a cold plunge. I've never any of that. So um, but Madeline are very familiar with breath work and embodiment and meditation and and all of those things that are incredible.

Trying Yoga And Embracing Discomfort

SPEAKER_04 14:37

Yeah, I love all of that stuff. And it did some yoga more recently just to know what that's all about as well. And it was kind of it was kind of difficult because they were all young, really fit people. So old me trying to keep up with all the poses and and moves and so on. And my flexibility isn't great. So I felt a little bit of a fish out of water doing it, but it was still like that's sometimes it's it's really helpful to be that fish out of water and find out new things and opportunities and not you know, not be too self-conscious to look like a fool, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 15:07

Yeah, well, you just need to find a yoga where they have the lights out because the place I go, they have the lights out, nobody can see. So it's perfect.

Launching Built Trusted Chosen

SPEAKER_02 15:18

No one knows what anyone else is doing. And plus, it also puts you in a spot where you get to experience the most growth, right? If you went in and you were comfortable and it was easy, are you really growing and expanding as much as you can? So, yes, that's yeah, that's great. Well, Wes, you talked about just recently launching a podcast as well. And as a result of like wanting and having that desire to truly step into your authentic self and bringing that to the world. Tell us a little bit about your journey to realizing that you needed to start a podcast, the mission and the impact that you have for starting it.

Human Connection As A Differentiator

SPEAKER_04 15:51

Yeah, well, so we serve trades and construction businesses for the most part. And so I just saw a gap in people, like podcasts, particularly in my region, for people just like them. So a business-related podcast they're talking about some of the things that I mean I I value. So built trusted and chosen. I really think now is a season of the in the world where we need to build trust and authenticity so we can be chosen because there's just so much inauthentic information out there, you know, with AI and the rise of uh AI. So we're s so we we can't trust what we're reading or seeing. We don't know if a humans even checked it or read it, what's being published. I mean, it's kind of cool watching the videos of people who are long past it's kind of fun, but it's also frightening to know that okay, well that means uh what can I believe? Part of business is to attract people so that they trust you to part way with some of their money to invest in whatever they're trying to achieve, what they're building in in our instance for the trades and construction. So just discussing with various leaders in who have done it and have got different uh opinions and thoughts and ideas, it's been a great learning just for me. I'm I just have a conversation with the guests as if it's just having a a chat, learning some stuff from the the the wonderful guests. I know that other people are listening in, it's almost almost like eavesdropping that they're just listening in on our conversation and hope hopefully getting value out of it. It's been great fun.

SPEAKER_01 18:13

I I love that idea of that authenticity, and you know, you're so right with everything we see. We have to question, is this real or is this AI? And I think more now than ever because of the shift from pandemic when we all were going to places to work and now we're not, most stuff is now just done online. That human connection, I think that piece is going to be the differentiator for us moving forward.

Stand Out Or Race To The Bottom

SPEAKER_04 18:43

Yeah, I I hope so. And I think it is. It's certainly the aspect of business. The human connection is what I love the most. Like that's what really get keeps me buzzed about business, is I get to talk to people and and see what they're doing in their businesses and helping them grow that human relationship. The more value you can place on that, the better your the more sustainable your business will be. I know everyone's talking about AI and automating everything, but we're losing an aspect of that human connection. So I think that'll set us apart if we can keep that.

SPEAKER_02 19:14

And I feel like the space that you're focused on when you talk about like trade and construction, that I I consider it to be an industry that relies heavily on that human connection. I guess there are spaces for automation, but then now you've taken that additional step with bringing in those soft skills that we talk about, right? Can we can we bring in the personal development piece to realize and understand that we're building this holistic individual that's going to be a part of the company or or the organization?

SPEAKER_04 19:42

Yeah, 100%. Everything sort of dovetails into it. Everything influences every other aspect of your business. So whilst we work on the marketing, so the what people are observing in a business, it needs to be supported by what's happening behind the scenes, the culture. So we might be working on the brand element, the visual element and the communication, but that needs to be the same as what people will experience when they talk to the company. So for example, if we create a website and all of a sudden the phone's ringing off of a talk and there's all these leads coming in through the door, if the message doesn't match the experience they have when they talk to somebody, then there's there's a lack of alignment. So that's kind of why I'm trying to develop a greater understanding of businesses, trades and construction businesses. I mean, I'm not a trades person or I'm useless at picking picking up a hammer or I don't know what end of the screwdriver to hold. So uh yeah, so it's a that part of it's a challenge. But the human part I I fully get and I really relate well to these. They're really pragmatic, practical, down-to-earth people. I I love that kind of person. So yeah, just understanding them to a higher level has been really helpful.

SPEAKER_02 20:50

Well, Wes, I want to just just so you know that you're in a safe space. I don't think I owned my own hammer until I was well into my 30s. And so for the great majority of my adult life, I've always used a high heel. The heel of a high heel is perfect for a hammer. So if you don't know which end of the screwdriver to hold, that's fine. It's a safe space.

SPEAKER_03 21:10

I uh haven't got a set of stilettos, so I uh I'm uh lacking that minute as well.

SPEAKER_02 21:15

So there's not much that a stiletto cannot do. I'm just saying.

SPEAKER_03 21:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:26

Well, Wes, can you talk to us a little bit about marketing? Because I know that you focus specifically on this industry, but I think a lot of what you and your team work on goes across it's not industry specific. For our listeners that are in that entrepreneurial space, when they're looking at marketing and branding and differentiating the two, what are some key things that you would give advice to those individuals on when they're look exploring their own brand?

Turning Frustrations Into Positioning

SPEAKER_04 21:48

Yeah, well, it's never been more important to be distinctly unique because there's so much information out there. The only way to stand out and to set yourself apart is to be different in some ways. And it doesn't have to be different in every aspect of the industry in which you work, but there has to be key distinctions that make you a viable option. Otherwise, if you if you're just the same as everyone else, all you can do is compete on price alone. And then you're right, it's a race to the bottom. Who's going to be the cheapest? And you know, margins are eroded, and that's how businesses go end up going out of business. We had a lot of uh construction businesses go out of business here in Australia following COVID, and then the building materials prices went up. And they were for the most part for the residential homes. They were doing fixed price builds, and so all of a sudden their costs were greater than their income. And so some of them were able to just wear those losses for those projects. They were big enough to wear it. Some tried to wear it, but then it ended up falling over, and so people are ha have a half built home. So not being distinct means you're racing to the bottom in terms of price and you uh are vulnerable to to not be there in the long term. So finding Those key points of difference that only you can bring. And they might be opinions and values. And you know, every business talks about values and mission statements and all that kind of stuff. But it really needs to be truly something that's distinct. And so trying to figure that out can be tough for a company. But once we do, we tailor all the marketing messages around that key distinctions. Because it's the only part that really needs to be spoken of. Because in general, general terms, people kind of understand that the industry itself, but they only the only part you need to communicate is the points of difference. So that's what we're kind of focused on for our clients. It's working really well in this day and age of uh, you know, an abundance of information. It's the way to cut through.

SPEAKER_01 23:38

Well, that's why I was wondering. How hard is that to do when there is so much availability to through AI, whatever platform you use? I mean, it could be very overwhelming. So, how do you make yourself unique that's authentic to you? So, what's that process you go through with them to kind of kind of filter all that noise out?

Using AI Without Losing Authenticity

SPEAKER_04 23:57

Yeah, well, this is something I were I learned through the psychologist to a large degree. People are people. And so to uncover some of these things that are genuinely unique, I like to have a uh Are you familiar with shadow work? Yeah, yeah. So I have conversations with the founders of the companies. Uh I don't tell them it's shadow work, but it's kind of where the ideas have come from. And I'm trying to uncover all the darkness in their industry, all the aspects and their frustrations. It's almost like a venting session. So they're speaking about all their competitors and their industry and what's wrong even within their own company. And by doing that, they find that conversation super easy to do because they're highly emotional, the all the dark side, the frustrations. So they speak that out. But then what we can do from that is hey, what's the inverse opposite of these things? That's the light. And so we can see the light so much easier once we understand what that darkness is, if that makes sense. So I don't explain it in that those terms to the people I'm working with. I just get them to open up and start venting. And then we soon discover what they really don't like in the industry is probably the inverse opposite is their marketing message that they need to bring to the world. Does that make sense? It does.

SPEAKER_02 25:13

I feel like that's such a powerful experience to take them through because you're basically saying, you're posing the question, what are the challenges or what are the things that you dislike about the industry at this moment in time? So they start with that list and then taking that to reverse engineer it into here's the value in knowing that. And what do you have control over that you can make it a win for you?

SPEAKER_04 25:36

Yeah, absolutely. I used to approach it the opposite, just try and have the conversation around the positive, like the light. What are you, what are you doing that's wonderful in the world? The answers were always coming out a little bit generic. They're always the same. I'll really care for our customer. We we like to show up on time, we like to keep it tidy, we like to leave it, because they're tradespeople, we like to leave a clean environment when we leave. But they were kind of all saying the same things. But once you sort of start looking at it.

Closing And Listener Takeaways

SPEAKER_02 26:01

Right. Yeah, they they're not going any, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 26:04

Yeah, yeah. So you've got to dig a little deeper than that. And that's just the art. It's kind of an art rather than a science, I suppose, those conversations. Just understanding people and trying to figure that out, having the you know, uh intuitive approach to uncover these things.

SPEAKER_01 26:19

Yeah, and I'm sure they're very forthcoming about talking badly about their competitors. Yeah, yeah, they love it.

SPEAKER_04 26:24

Yeah, it's they haven't got to think hard. They know what's going on. They know exactly.

SPEAKER_02 26:31

Exactly. So then taking them back to the other side, the light piece, and then from there, you and your team will then help in crafting the message and and turn that into what the visual and the branding and the marketing piece needs to be.

SPEAKER_04 26:47

That's right. We're working on the message for them. And so we do use AI. Once we've bedded down some of these key ideas, create prompts for them so we can use them in ChatGPT and the like. And we will even give it to them if they're producing some of their own social media. So really elaborate prompts that we use. And they're almost like style guides. Back in the day before AI, we would we would have style guides for everything, the content writing and the visuals, etc. It's almost the same thing, but it's a prompt. And you use that to make sure everything's always on message. So if we're producing content on their behalf, it's really always on the same, on the same uh line of thinking. So it's doing that groundwork means that the content you do produce through AI doesn't come out generic and bland. And that's the that you know, the AI slop that we're all seeing. Yeah, you've really got to fight against that. So if you get lazy and just rely on the tools to do the thinking for you, well, you'll just come out the same because it's all it's doing is pulling in a bunch of ideas that everyone else has already had and collating it into something perceived to be new, but it's not new at all. So that's why you really have to fight against that. Uh, use the tools to advantage, but you've you've got to bed down who you truly are first. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:59

Thank you for joining us today on the Reignite Resilience podcast. We hope you had some aha moments and learned a few new real life ideas to fuel the flames of passion. Please subscribe on your favorite streaming platform, like or download your favorite episodes, and of course, share with your friends and family. We look forward to seeing you again next time on Reignite Resilience.